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Monday, July 13, 2009
Another Right-Wing Lie Debunked: Europe IS NOT Being Overrun by Muslims
Clowns and hysterics like Mark Steyn have been spreading this idea. It's simply not borne out by the facts, which are very ably presented here.
Is there ANYTHING the conservatives are actually right about or honest about? Anything at all?
5 comments:
Ted S.
said...
Um ... can you specify where in the Newsweek article these supposed "facts" are? I mean, I like facts and stuff, but the Newsweek article was notably light in the fact department.
"Coming up with a reasonable estimate for the percentage of Muslims now living in Europe, let alone making projections for the future, is a virtually impossible task", says Newsweek. So what Newsweek "very ably presented" was that they don't really know the answer and they don't think anyone else should know either.
They may or may not be right about that, but it doesn't really qualify as a fact.
Hey, proud to be the first visitor from SteynOnline!
I don't think Underhill's article for Newsweek constitutes a debunking. For all the author's protests against Steyn, et al., it's really more of a "jury-is-still-out" sort of thing, to judge from statements like
Coming up with a reasonable estimate for the percentage of Muslims now living in Europe, let alone making projections for the future, is a virtually impossible task.
and It is true that the Muslim minority is destined to grow steadily in Europe.
And reasonable people can hold different opinions about a lot of things, including statistics and forecasts of future birth rates. The future, being the future, is an unknown. Steyn doesn't have a problem admitting when he's been proven wrong, so we'll see.
Regarding ANYTHING conservatives are actually right about, it'd be best to look to the past. Alger Hiss being a spy comes to mind. Same with the Rosenbergs. They were right about that. Steyn has been right about "Human Rights" trials up in Canada, or as is easily demonstrated, the existence of the Ayatollah's book on Islam. So yeah, they've had the facts rights on any number of things.
Regarding honesty, there are good-faith arguments as well as plenty of dissimulation all across the political spectrum. That's politics. It isn't math. Reasonable people can have different opinions. That's a good thing.
Steyn nor anyone else said "overrun" by anyone, and the majority populations will be just that in 2050. What he DID say was that the politics and culture would be altered to the point where Europe of today is bent to virtual cultural extinction.
You DON'T have to be "overrun" for this to happen. At that, it is unlikely that American will have many allies in what will prove a very long war on terror and savagery.
Having Muslim youth celebrate their own version of multi-culti is looking more like a gruesome monoculti when this allegedly wonderful cross-pollination of cultures occurs and beheadings are now downloaded to camera phones.
This Newsweek article seems to contradict the March 9, 2007 Newsweek cover story by Fareed Zakaria,"Radical Islam is a Fact of Life. How to Live with It." Which one is it? Is radical Islam gaining a foothold in the world (but it's really okay, we just need "balance" and "cultural context" to understand our new friends? Or is that "debunked" by this current "Newsweek"? And if this article is an attempt to pin the current European electoral outcomes on people like Mark Steyn, then it is wholly inaccurate. You should read Steyn instead of just listening to his critics (and you can do both if you pick up "America Alone".
Regarding your article, "Why Fears Of A Muslim Takeover Are All Wrong," at http://www.newsweek.com/id/206230/page/1, your treatment of the question of Europe's islamization is flippant. You maintain that little is known of muslim numbers, fertility, and illegal immigration, because the European governments don't assemble the information. In the absence of official statistics, there's no cause for concern, and thus no cause for you, yourself, to do more than make an offhand dismissal of the views of American and European writers, European politicians, and the large factions of European nations who are converting from international socialism to national socialism. William Underhill, the conclusion a reasonable man would draw from your unreasonable premises is that, if we could just get rid of statistical social science and investigative journalism, we'd have no social problems to worry about.
Moreover, your faith in the ability of a simple, continent-wide majority to hold things together is touching. No, of course it isn't touching; it's ridiculous. The problems we fear Europe must expect will begin long before there is a simple majority of muslims in Europe as a whole. We expect emergent troubles in more and more locales as the number of young adult muslims in a given locale rises to meet the number of non-muslim young adults. Really, William Underhill, Mark Steyn has made himself quite plain on this point. I can't even imagine that you read his book in preparation for your article.
5 comments:
Um ... can you specify where in the Newsweek article these supposed "facts" are? I mean, I like facts and stuff, but the Newsweek article was notably light in the fact department.
"Coming up with a reasonable estimate for the percentage of Muslims now living in Europe, let alone making projections for the future, is a virtually impossible task", says Newsweek. So what Newsweek "very ably presented" was that they don't really know the answer and they don't think anyone else should know either.
They may or may not be right about that, but it doesn't really qualify as a fact.
Hey, proud to be the first visitor from SteynOnline!
I don't think Underhill's article for Newsweek constitutes a debunking. For all the author's protests against Steyn, et al., it's really more of a "jury-is-still-out" sort of thing, to judge from statements like
Coming up with a reasonable estimate for the percentage of Muslims now living in Europe, let alone making projections for the future, is a virtually impossible task.
and It is true that the Muslim minority is destined to grow steadily in Europe.
And reasonable people can hold different opinions about a lot of things, including statistics and forecasts of future birth rates. The future, being the future, is an unknown. Steyn doesn't have a problem admitting when he's been proven wrong, so we'll see.
Regarding ANYTHING conservatives are actually right about, it'd be best to look to the past. Alger Hiss being a spy comes to mind. Same with the Rosenbergs. They were right about that. Steyn has been right about "Human Rights" trials up in Canada, or as is easily demonstrated, the existence of the Ayatollah's book on Islam. So yeah, they've had the facts rights on any number of things.
Regarding honesty, there are good-faith arguments as well as plenty of dissimulation all across the political spectrum. That's politics. It isn't math. Reasonable people can have different opinions. That's a good thing.
PS--
In any case, straw men need to be torched.
Steyn nor anyone else said "overrun" by anyone, and the majority populations will be just that in 2050. What he DID say was that the politics and culture would be altered to the point where Europe of today is bent to virtual cultural extinction.
You DON'T have to be "overrun" for this to happen. At that, it is unlikely that American will have many allies in what will prove a very long war on terror and savagery.
Having Muslim youth celebrate their own version of multi-culti is looking more like a gruesome monoculti when this allegedly wonderful cross-pollination of cultures occurs and beheadings are now downloaded to camera phones.
Nice.
This Newsweek article seems to contradict the March 9, 2007 Newsweek cover story by Fareed Zakaria,"Radical Islam is a Fact of Life. How to Live with It."
Which one is it? Is radical Islam gaining a foothold in the world (but it's really okay, we just need "balance" and "cultural context" to understand our new friends? Or is that "debunked" by this current "Newsweek"?
And if this article is an attempt to pin the current European electoral outcomes on people like Mark Steyn, then it is wholly inaccurate. You should read Steyn instead of just listening to his critics (and you can do both if you pick up "America Alone".
William Underhill:
Regarding your article, "Why Fears Of A Muslim Takeover Are All Wrong," at http://www.newsweek.com/id/206230/page/1, your treatment of the question of Europe's islamization is flippant. You maintain that little is known of muslim numbers, fertility, and illegal immigration, because the European governments don't assemble the information. In the absence of official statistics, there's no cause for concern, and thus no cause for you, yourself, to do more than make an offhand dismissal of the views of American and European writers, European politicians, and the large factions of European nations who are converting from international socialism to national socialism. William Underhill, the conclusion a reasonable man would draw from your unreasonable premises is that, if we could just get rid of statistical social science and investigative journalism, we'd have no social problems to worry about.
Moreover, your faith in the ability of a simple, continent-wide majority to hold things together is touching. No, of course it isn't touching; it's ridiculous. The problems we fear Europe must expect will begin long before there is a simple majority of muslims in Europe as a whole. We expect emergent troubles in more and more locales as the number of young adult muslims in a given locale rises to meet the number of non-muslim young adults. Really, William Underhill, Mark Steyn has made himself quite plain on this point. I can't even imagine that you read his book in preparation for your article.
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